D&D 4th Edition Updates and Toolsets

As I mentioned before, the Dungeons and Dragons site was down (and is once more), but with Randy’s help, he and I poked around a little bit and found some goodies.

Firstly, we read an article on class development which focused on the Fighter Class. It appears that the whole talent trees that I discussed in my previous post work in a pretty sexy way for fighters! At first level, a fighter chooses a weapon type which basically ‘locks’ him/her into a certain weapon tree where he can gain specific talents with the given weapon. Kinda cool.

Secondly, DnDInsider, the subscription based community site that Wizards is launching is available for public beta testing so people can get a feel for what will be coming in the next year. As soon as the site is back up, I’ll be making an account and poking around there. Making an account is a good idea if you have any desire to be a 4th Edition play tester as they will be picking members sometime in the next 11 months from that community to do just that…play test!

Thirdly, here’s the 4th Edition presentation that was given at GenCon this year. Within the presentation, they demo a sweet new dungeon mapping toolset. Check it out:


Comments

45 responses to “D&D 4th Edition Updates and Toolsets”

  1. 4.0 is awful. It’s an insult to dungeons and dragons fans. We deserve and apology, and a complete retraction of this awful attempt to capitalize on on the dumbed down WoW market.

  2. EvilDucky Avatar
    EvilDucky

    W. is right! 4th ed is the WORST thing that could have happened to us life-gamers! Wizards ruined our game, and we deserve an apology!!!!! GurlGamers unit! Write and DEMAND your apology! I did :)

  3. truth Avatar
    truth

    In all seriousness, it’s pretty awful.

  4. I COMPLETELY agree that 4.0 is a horrible excuse for us long time D&D players but my gaming group has come to a consensus that 4.0 isn’t designed for us old timers *cry*. It’s designed to be a “gateway” game to bring players from other genres like CCGs and Video/Console gamers into the scene. Hasbro wants WotC to make MONEY and widen it’s appeal range. It just means I am playing 3.5 or Pathfinder’s 3.75 or another RPG system. At least we have choices.

  5. BloodAxe Avatar
    BloodAxe

    Did play it for 8 game sessions and I can say hands down, our entire group agrees, 4.0 sucks!

  6. 1013dragon Avatar
    1013dragon

    I have been playing D&D since 1982 and I understand “players” not liking fourth edition. But it has cut down prep time for me as a DM. I use John Four’s 5 room dungeon to build my sessions for each game and 4th edition has streamlined the Dm’s job. I have noticed a tremendous decrease in prep time. In the past editions I could spend up to eight hours prepping a game for a one night session. As many DM’s can attest, I have a life and can’t afford to spend that much time prepping game. My player’s bitched at first but as we began to customize our character’s with personal flavor text and really looked at the simplification of many rules. We proudly say 4th edition is a worthy RPG. At least, 4th edition gives you something else to say and do while swinging that axe for the 15th time in a encounter.

  7. Durgency Avatar
    Durgency

    The first thing I noticed on the cover of the new books is that “Advanced” is gone. I have also been playing AD&D since the early 80’s and I’m very disappointed with 4.0, but as it has been said, us old time gamers are not WoC’s target market. The spoiled, short attention span youth of today, who don’t have the patience or imagination to spend hours making characters and constructing adventures are the intended market.

  8. Okay… I get what some of you are saying. 4th Edition is VERY different from the old stuff, but seriously, you guys need to lighten up on it. I honestly think it’s great that they’re trying to appeal to a bigger group. It can be a gateway for people of this generation to try the older games, for them to get into games that involve more imagination. I honestly like the system, it makes it so we DM’s can have an actual life and game without feeling as though hours and hours of prep were in waste when one of your characters find a way to break your attempts to challenge them (F***ing metagamers) Plus, I find it better for painting a picture for your players. Not to mention they made Wizard’s not suck anymore. Let’s face it, before when you had a limited amount of spells per day a spellcaster sucked balls in a big dungeon where you couldn’t rest. I have my issues with the system myself (they kinda raped two weapon fighting and took away the familiar and animal companion) But as a whole I think it’s a fun new system. I think us ‘old school’ players need to open our minds a bit more. Remember how badly everyone reacted to 3rd edition? And it turned out great in the end.

  9. If you don’t like 4.0, just bring out your 3.5 books. Unless you burned them in anticipation of the 4.0 messiah, they are still fine. and don’t bitch about no more releases for 3.5, as between my entire gaming group, we have somewhere near 200 different 3.5 books. If you ever, in your entire life, play with every single class and monster, or weapon, or spell, or feat, or ANYTHING, then you seriously need to rethink how you spend your time. WotC is a company, and if they don’t make money they shut down. it is THEY’RE product, and the LAST thing they owe us is an apology.

  10. Neckrone Avatar
    Neckrone

    You are right. Hasbro does not owe anyone an apology. However, i am personally disgusted by the product they have created. There is a reason why this gaming system has survived when others haved burned out and faded away and they have all but destroyed many of the aspects of the game that many have loved.

    The reason for this, of course, was twofold.
    First, they want to appeal to a newer, younger generation that doesnt have the patience to learn the rules of the older versions of the game. What they dont understand is that the people who they are shooting for are not the ones whom they can depend on to keep coming back. They will buy in, then get bored and move on.

    Second, they wanted to make it like an online (WoW) game, i can only assume becaus they think it would be cool. The problem with this is that online games have been developed with the limitations of user-interface. That is, limited options and limited abilities. Online games werent designed with this system as an optimum method of gaming, instead this system developed as the best they could do with the keyboard interface that user’s have. A game system based on these limitations is a dumb idea, profit or not.

    If you are upset with Hasbro, dont buy their products. i dont anymore, weather i’m buying gaming materials for myself or games or toys for others. if they are only interested in the almighty dollar, then i am more than happy to deny them mine.

  11. OneTrickPony Avatar
    OneTrickPony

    I was introduced to advanced D&D first edition in 1982. When second edition arrived, it was similar enough to first to be streamlined into the existing campaigns. Not much changed. When third edition came out, my immediate reaction was let’s check it out and see. After reading the books and trying to understand the newer rules, our group slipped back to second edition. Just within the last couple of years, we have begun to play with the 3.5 rules.

    I have explored fourth edition and after a discussion with our gaming group we have determined that this edition is not designed for us. In reviewing the books, I immediately recognized it for what it was, video game mechanics for paper and pencil play. I was disgusted and a bit disappointed that I had spent the money for the books before I had thought to check the internet to see what others were saying about the edition. It seems that creativity has gone out the window and the challenges are more combat oriented than ever.

    Character uniqueness is gone. Everyone now knows what this class or that character can do. There might have been two theives in the party in the past, but one might have been a specialist at locks while another was great at sneaking. No more. They all seem the same. Goes for every class.

    Anyway, I am now waxing nostalgic for the many nights I played first edition games with friends. Those were the best adventures and most creative campaigns. Yeah, wizards certainly had a hard time of it. One or two spells and you were shoved to the back of the party (with a guard so you don’t get ambushed of course), but it made things a challenge. If we continue to play D&D, we may stay with third or slip back to second with a few bits and pieces of third thrown in.

    One more bit. I’d like to express my appreciation for the game that Gary Gygax created, but alas, any vestige of what D&D was about has been wiped out by fourth edition. For those of you who have joined the tabletop community through fourth edition, I hope this opens a whole new world of opportunity for you. Tabletop RPG’s are great and there really is nothing better than socializing with friends face to face. Something just seems to be missing from online play.

    Enough of my ranting. *casts Silence 15′ Radius on self*

  12. four point oh sucks my a$$ Avatar
    four point oh sucks my a$$

    they completely f-cked up big time. I’ve tried playing about 8 – 10 times with our group and we’re done. We’re going back to 3.5. We even tried skipping up to some higher levels to see if it got better — it doesn’t. What a train wreck. As a D&D player/DM who started with the pink box “basic set”, I’ve got to say this is the worst version of D&D ever by a very wide margin.

  13. I agree, 4th addition Hero Quest .. I am D&D sucks. Don’t worry D&D 4.5 addition will come out soon and will then become a full table top war game like warhammer

  14. sorry about the poor english above

    I agree, 4th edition Hero Quest .. I mean, D&D sucks. Don’t worry, D&D 4.5 edition will come out soon and it will be a full table top war game like warhammer.

  15. alcomene Avatar
    alcomene

    I have to disagree with most of the points you all have presented here. I am in my first d&d campaign, though I’ve logged many hours hanging out with gamers and loving d&d. I find this edition a million times easier for a new player to figure out. I always got so confused with 3.5 that I never played. With 4th, I actually can remember what I’m suppose to do! The other party members of my group are all Very experienced d&d (among other rpg) gamers who all agree that they like most of 4th ed. The only complaint I found was that there wasn’t enough creativity aloud, which I do agree with. My tiefling warlock is extremely limited when it comes time to level up. I do think it’s a great game to start out on though. And it’s proved fun for the older players I know. I think some of you need to get off your curmudgeonly high horses and learn to appreciate simple playing and learn new things!

  16. DM/Player for 15+ years Avatar
    DM/Player for 15+ years

    I was smart enough that when I found out 4th Edition hit the markets I went and downloaded copies of the books from torrent sites (I know it’s illegal to own those, but I like to preview before I buy).
    Within the first twenty seconds I realized what I had downloaded: horse crap. Seriously, the only worse thing I have ever seen published in a d20 system was the modified Aberrant (should have kept it d10. d20 SUCKED! But I digress).
    If players want to play video games they will play video games. I have discussed this for countless hours with my coworkers (avid WoW players), and this “new generation of players” as they are called have no desire to learn to use their imaginations for anything other than being the best, no matter the cost. They will abuse systems, find ways to cheat, etc. They have no appreciation for the systems themselves, not to mention a total lack of imaginative ability.
    4th edition was a way for Wizards to attempt to make more money, but I can promise it will be a total flop for them. They would have had much better luck producing Ravenloft material (Sword and Sorcery took over those products, and they are not bad, but I believe Wizards may have been able to do a better job if they had tried hard) or more material for older game-types, such as Spell-Jammer.
    To sum it up: Gamers want to game, to think, imagine, and create; video-gamers want to play, to take what someone else made and run with it, not make it their own. It was a waste of time and money, and I think it will come back and bite WotC in the ass.
    And in response to “Player who actually gets laid”‘s comment… you’re a freakin’ moron. Learn to type in English ya’ leet bastard. Seriously, you are the kind of person who 4th edition was designed for, someone who is incapable of comprehending big-people words and using what your maker gave you. I apologize. Usually my insults are much fuller and fluent, but I thought I would bring it down to your level of logic. Simply judging by your user name, your typing style, and your lack of a real language I can easily deduce that you are a stereotype punk kid between 11 and 24 who thinks women are only their to give you head while you WoW. Get a clue and leave the gaming to the people who can use it.

  17. I understand the business side – fine – they gotta do what they gotta do.
    And hopefully they will find a new market.
    But for us “old timers” the thing is LAME. And that’s okay. We still have 3.5.
    I mean, what’s with the elves that make elves look like humans? Are they extra Elvy-Elves? Dumb.
    So – I bought the core books – and am happy burying myself back into 3.5.

  18. To be honest my first veiw of 4e was pretty dissapointing, i thought the system bland and like every one has said, steering towards a more mmo feel. It does seem they made the new rules to be more easily ported to video games and what not but after a few months gaiming in the new system ive found it not so bad. While it lacks a bit of creativity i think that can be fixed with more source material, seriously they have what 5-6 booksa out now comparred to the 200+ WotC and generic D20 books for 3.0/5… They stream lined alot in 4e and i prefer that, some of my old games got bogged down so bad we could barely make it thru a single battle in a session, now combat is swifter and streamlined which is completely fine with me. If your so desperate for creativity then create… you dont need a book to tell you how to play your character, never did, that was the job of the player.

  19. I personally find the range of views both refreshing and disappointing. As a player and a dm who has almost exclusively worked with 3.5 I’ve found something special about 4 — there’s significantly less complaining when you partykill your players. The system is easy to work with, has gentle limits while leaving most of the decision up to the dm, and gives a clean utility for creating campaigns.

    Add into this the extra ease of character creation and you’ve got the perfect platform to use while trying to find a good strong group to game with. I’ve personally had quite a lot of trouble finding a group that has the kind of schedule alowing the kind of commitment required of the other gaming systems.

  20. just one short point. If your RPG lacks imagination, learn to role play. If you do not want your sessions to revolve around battles, then come up with a mystery, i DM and play under 4.0. My group spent the entire last session trying to find an inmate who disappeared to save a guards life (the penalty for letting prisoners escape is death). They had two days while the trials were going on and they had a great time. One person interviewed guards while another infiltrated the gang the prison was in, one flirted her way into a gang members good graces and had him lead her to the hidout’s entrance. (The last party member tailed the female party member and wound up killing the gang member when he got to frisky). There was one fight that lasted 3 rounds. The other 3-4 hours was them going around town finding things out and getting into trouble with the guards (silly dwarf). Using their skilla in skill challenges and we all had a great time and a lot of laughs. So if there is no imagination in your game and all you do is fight…fix it. It’s not the games fault but your reliance on the rules telling you you can rp…you don’t need that you can do it yourself. I prepared 3 hours worth of battles and traps and they didn’t go the way i thought they would so my plans were ruined and I had to…dare I say it…improve and go with it. It was a great time for all. Anywho, 3.5 was good but i like 4.0 better. That’s my piece have a nice day.

  21. I have been playing D&D for 30 years (since red box) and I am annoyed at all these people speaking for me. I am an “Old Timer” and I LOVE 4th edition. 3.5 was a broken, creaky, peice of crap that never should have made it to the market. 4th edition harkens back to the days of 1st edition, to my mind. I love the new powers, I love the fact that you get “paid” at every PC level and I dig the fact that I have had to forget everything I knew and begin afresh. This game is the pinnacle of role-playing games and its job is to lead, to innovate, and ultimately to reach out to as many players as it can.
    We are supposed to be a community, but all I see is self-serving whiners who have forgotten what it means to be blessed with a game that lets them do whatever they want!
    You can take 3.5 edition and stick it. Give me simplicity, cool new shiny stuff and ease of combat (farewell grapple rules!) any day of the week. If you don’t like it, go play GURPS.

  22. WOW!!! I was about to buy the 4th edition books, but reading some of the replies, it may be a good thing I did not!
    I have been a D&D Gamer since the early 80’s and still to this day, ONLY play 2nd edition Advance (with some 1st integrated).
    I could not get into 3rd ed. and have never even looked at 3.5
    Thanks for the insight fellow gamers!

  23. sock-eat-sock Avatar
    sock-eat-sock

    3.5 is the best. Streamlined rules without stipping the complexity. I think everyone just needs to look at 4.0 as a different game. People still play AD&D and even first edition and people will most certainly continue to play 3.5.
    If you want change, don’t buy 4.0 books. Hit ebay and keep living in 3.5. WoTC will hear. If their sales plummet and people just stop caring then they’ll respond. They’ll ask themselves what made D&D so sucessful and find that it was far from 4.0

    Don’t fear gamers. Live in the past till the future catches up.

  24. Ichabad Avatar
    Ichabad

    I would like to think that we all agree that a Role Playing game should include Role Playing. The only problem is that with 4th ed. Role Playing is turned into ROLL playing because your success is determined by making skill checks. So I would assume that “flirting” with the gang member required “x” number of successful skill checks..which of course requires no real interaction between the Player and GM other then announcing what your rolled on the die and the GM letting you know if your succeded or not.

  25. Ichabad Avatar
    Ichabad

    I have been playing D&D for over 30 years (since the first parchment books) and I do not mind anyone speaking for “old timers” or “young gamers” etc. For what it is worth, I think 4th ed. is not a Role Playing game, more like a cross between a board game and a computer game. That being said, I and my friend have been playing it every other week for the past year or so. Other then being called D&D it has little in common with 1st edition (parchment books, original boxed set or Red & Blue boxed sets) as far as game mechanics and Role Playing is concerned. In 4th ed. Wotc has designed a game where every character is equivalent in playability, making none unique. You could in fact remove all the “color” from the game books and simply call each power by a number. “I use warlock power 2” etc. Yes, perhaps this makes every player equally involved in every encounter, but constrains all characters to the same repetitive set of actions. And yes, you can and probably will rest between every encounter so your powers will recharge. This is fine. If you are looking for a game system that plays like Hero Quest with the occasional “warrior needs food badly” thrown in for flavor, then play 4th ed. Me and my friends do, although none of us enjoy the game as much as we enjoy the company and making jokes at 4th ed. expense. On the other hand, if you hate the game, then don’t buy the books and don’t play. As far as I know, the Wotc police will NOT come to your house and take your earlier edition books away. Who cares what Wotc does anyway?

    I have been playing D&D for 30 years (since red box) and I am annoyed at all these people speaking for me. I am an “Old Timer” and I LOVE 4th edition. 3.5 was a broken, creaky, peice of crap that never should have made it to the market. 4th edition harkens back to the days of 1st edition, to my mind. I love the new powers, I love the fact that you get “paid” at every PC level and I dig the fact that I have had to forget everything I knew and begin afresh. This game is the pinnacle of role-playing games and its job is to lead, to innovate, and ultimately to reach out to as many players as it can.We are supposed to be a community, but all I see is self-serving whiners who have forgotten what it means to be blessed with a game that lets them do whatever they want!You can take 3.5 edition and stick it. Give me simplicity, cool new shiny stuff and ease of combat (farewell grapple rules!) any day of the week. If you don’t like it, go play GURPS.

  26. We’ve made modifications to the D&D 4th Ed. Rules. We use the Combat and leveling rules of 4th Ed., but also use the Skill Check of the old 3.5 system, as well as it’s original alignment grid, instead of the linear 4th ed. alignment… line.

    Most of the D&D campaigns I do consist lightly of the rules as a basis for interacting with the world, the rest of it is just role playing. There are some good changes, and there are some pretty crummy changes as well. We base our games on 4.0, and what we don’t like we go back to either 3.5 or 3.0 for.

  27. Drakale Avatar
    Drakale

    I can kinda agree with both side here as a DM i have noticed that prep time has gone way down, on the otherhand nothing will ever beat a very well and cautiously planned out meeting, during 3.5 i played in a remarkable campaign that last 4 and a half years we didnt have a meeting but every other week but thats was all we needed because the roleplaying and storyline kept us entertained now it seems to have lost its flavor and you need more meetings to get that sense again. the variety of character variations is astounding but once a player has attuned to a certain type of character they like to play the builds become numbered and it seems like they just use the same at-wills every round. which is why i have a tip for old time players, if you miss all the spin and thrills and variations of 3.5 then just intergrate special features that are compatible to the players or create DM approved self made classes that fit the player rather than the book. the book give me inspiration as a dm, and rather than set in stone rules i consider them more as guidelines. if you have a problem with the way the game play goes then do somthing about it, be imaginative with it. thats what DND is about. DM’s the responsibility falls to you to make and provide an interesting environment rather than have your face planted in the rules and conditions sections. Be creative! …….Drakale OUT!

  28. Mephistopheles Avatar
    Mephistopheles

    D&D 4E is for children. “Play a dragon-kind: if you want to look like a dragon…” lame
    Hasbro has squeezed all depth out of it by the statement, “D&D will only have themes where good triumphs over bad”. They continue to cut out the gray areas, only thing left is black and white and paladins with tornado pants.
    First Star Wars RPG becomes 20D, then Vampire: Masquerade becomes lame, now D&D for tots…. What’s next. Maybe all games will become Hero-clicks. That’s simple rules for you.
    Me? I was a AD&D 2nd edition fan, and even though 3.0 rules sucked, I crossed over for availability of new books when 3.5 came out. I got over the bad rules, embraced the new. 3.5 still sucks and I played it anyway. 4th edition is fun, but so is “Shoots and Ladders”. Naw… I’m switching to Warhammer RPG where it’s easier to make the players feel ill at ease by the moral quandary inherent in that world, such as you would have with Vampire: Masquerade where the whole nature of you character begged the questions of what was right and wrong, and the rules in place for each situation. Many say, “you should have more imagination and change it yourself.” Rewriting the fundamentals of a game or changing the background setting of a game takes far longer then building a champagne in any set of rules, even Palladium: Rifts. Anyway… come on, they got rid of Gnomes and Druids and gave us tall elves to hang out with our regular elves. YAY!

  29. Danish Tallfella Avatar
    Danish Tallfella

    i reconise your anger and frustration about this newest edition of D&D. I enjoy the game and have spend quite a lot of money on the books. Being a newbee (only played 3,5 + 4,o in about 3 years) and thus lacks experience. I find that the fact that to create encounters and create new monsters fairly quickly, it seems that by making the work so easy it sort of inspires creativity rather than comepletely overshadowing it with the thoughts of the game being a mmorpg.

    I personally hate WoW (though I do not mind the people who play) and the illustrations of the ph seems to copy those characteristisk which I find to be rather bogus.
    When you are playing a classic rpg. Why don’t they make their own style like in the 3,5 illustrations.

    In short… Easy rules (nice), perthetic illustrations (in the core books!) and does feel like a mmorpg.
    Mr. Stage (Denmark, skandinavia)

  30. Altalus Avatar
    Altalus

    Just my 2 cents… (sorry for the bad english)

    Played D&D since mid 80’s and tough 3 and 3.5 were more of a math class than a fun game. When I DM we use the rules 3 or 4 times a session and I keep the player talking to each-others and to NPC (that I role play, I know, weird heh ?) as much as possible. You know why ? Because it’s the PCs actions and not the stats on the sheet that defines them. Yes the stats help with the limits, but I always reward a player with imagination and intelligence over a munchkin that can make a L33T character on paper.

    *I* am the controller of fait and *I* am the force that binds and controls the Gods and their plaines. I kicked out several players that were stopping that game where the others had fun because of some rule I might have overlooked.

    I am a DM, and I want my players (ALL of them if possible) to have fun. I my current group I have 2 teens (1st RPG) my wife (started with 3rd edition) and 2 of my father’s friends that started with the very first edition. Odd that no one is complaining about 4th edition as they try to make each characters unique to THEM and not to the… stats on a sheet of paper…

    D&D is in the mind, in that other world where you must imagine what I am describing and where death is another gateway to an adventure. D&D never was a kind of “You are the Hero” text book where your only choices were to go to page 345 or 67. Ask the DM if you can jump that high… No ? How about of I use this Dwarf’s arms as lunch pad ?

  31. “if they are only interested in the almighty dollar, then i am more than happy to deny them mine” – neckrone

    well said.

  32. “This game is the pinnacle of role-playing games…” – stormbringer

    either your assertion that you have been gaming for thirty years is a lie to attempt to advance your opinion or you have the imagination of a simpleton. 4e is what it is but if you think it surpasses warhammer fantasy roleplay or merp or a whole host of other games to earn your little “pinnacle” accolade youre taste and capacity for scrutiny are shite. your adoration makes you sound as hysterical as the haters.

  33. How is the game ruined? Can you still create a character and filled that creation with life? Most of the issues that have been brought up are from people who feel that the game is too simple and or too dumbed down. Well I heard the same complaints about 3/3.5. Some of the best RPG’s out there have simple rules. Amber and Nobilis are two examples. These are great games with a bare bones system. As a side note most RPGs and table top games are simplifying their rules. Why? In order to create a more enjoyable gaming experience for casual players. These games are about the fun you have while playing them. They are more than a collection of rules.

  34. Khrystina Avatar
    Khrystina

    I’m really pleased with 4.0 and my group seems to like it so far.

    I’m a middle-aged, casual gamer. We get together once every two weeks and I don’t want to invest more than an hour a week into preparing for my role in DMing the game.
    The simple combat rules are a winner with me. I was able to buy the books and spend about 3 hours reading before we sat down and ran our first adventure. My PCs also play casually and with systems we’ve used over the past 15 years (2.0, 3.0 and 3.5) that had deeply detailed and elegant possibilities for combat, it would take us literally days of self-study before we were able to run a single encounter on a new system. Even our first few battles would be spent doubling back on a combat result when one of us would say, “Oh, wait..did we allow for X effect?”

    4.0 has given me a very simple combat system that I picked up and learned in a couple hours. Because the game was so user friendly ‘out of the box’ we were more inclined to stick with it and we’re finally at a point where we’re picking up some of the deeper complexity that combat offers. Thanks to the simplified structure we were able to invite a player’s 12 yr old son to the table as a warlock and have him contribute to the battles. I’m glad to be able to show him how D&D is as much fun as the MMORPGs we play and how huge and creative the RPG community is.

    As for the role play, it’s the same as it always has been. I have PCs who play their characters with dreams, flaws and backgrounds. We’ve not noticed any real change under the 4.0 books.

  35. I have both 3.5 and 4 rule books but only play v4. I love it and so does my gaming group. I think that some of the rules are crap though, so I just change them, make them better. I think that each of them are seperate games, each to appreciated as somethnig seperate. The reason many seem to hate it is that they are too set in there ways unwilling to try someting else. WotC owe no one an apology!

  36. wizzdude Avatar
    wizzdude

    ive been playing dnd for about 5 years now so not super long and been gming for about 1 i love 3.5 but as many people have said 4ed is kinda dumb but if you try as a gm and get players with a good imagination that its just as good as 3.5. the biggest thing i have is that its easyer honestly i play every week because i love to gm and so my game need lots of prep as a gm i still spend over 8 to 10 hours a week writing up my campainges and thats using the fourth ed system and i remeber spending almost 16 a week doing it for 3.5. besides 3.5 was to easy to cheat and make hack chars. i ask my players what kinds of things they would like to see and what races and classes and i use 3.5 for help with my models why because it had its good points and one of them was that there were homebrews out the butt and i like to allow my players to change there world as they see fit i just run it i dont determine how much they rp but i do tell them i would rather that they roleplay it than roll it and most of them have only played 4th i have only two who played 3.5 and they thaught there was to much to work on when they had to create so for tose of you who think fourth is to easy MAKE IT FUCKING COMPLICATED YOURSELF IT AINT THAT HARD I DO IT EVERY WEEK.

  37. Tinhauser Avatar
    Tinhauser

    I think 4th edition is an absolute winner. I completely agree that it has taken a major turn towards MMO-gaming but I see that as a positive thing. As I see it the old system might have been better at helping you imagine things and put pictures to them but in terms of game mechanics 4th edition is in my opinion light years ahead.

    Now there is actually a system instead of a bunch of random rules helplessly slapped on to a setting. My friends and I almost exclusively use our own settings, so for us it is really nice that there is a solid “portable” system.

    In my opinion 4th edition is both more advanced and easier to use than any of the old systems. I think the old systems just appear more complex because they are much more poorly constructed and thus harder to get a complete overview of.

  38. 4.0 is pretty bad. These At-Will-Powers are stupid… I liked the old combat how you would run into combat either make an easy range or melee attack and end your turn but that can’t happen with this system. Every turn I have to wait for the play to tell me what the hell an ability does and cast it. That happens every turn but not just with wizards, with rogues, paladins, fighters, and even warlords… I mean honestly, why would you give someone a weapon to use and just enable them to use powers constantly… I understand that some moves add your weapon damage with bonuses but it defeats the purpose of even having a weapon if you are just going to use these At-Will-Powers…

    Other than the combat system, the game flies by as normal…

  39. 4.0 is pretty bad. These At-Will-Powers are stupid… I liked the old combat how you would run into combat either make an easy range or melee attack and end your turn but that can’t happen with this system. Every turn I have to wait for the player to tell me what ability he is casting and what the hell it does. That happens every turn but not just with wizards, with rogues, paladins, fighters, and even warlords… I mean honestly, why would you give someone a weapon to use and just enable them to use powers constantly… I understand that some moves add your weapon damage with bonuses but it defeats the purpose of even having a weapon if you are just going to use these At-Will-Powers…

    Other than the combat system, the game flies by as normal…

  40. 4th is bad, and I agree that we are entitled to an apology, not for us, but for Gary Gygax. It is indeed bridging table top board games and an mmo. All the haters are exactly right. The only thing the lovers are right on is that it is made for a younger audience. The instant gratification era is here and society is generally without imagination or patience. Uniqueness is discouraged in society , hence the dumbing down of character options for 4th. Let the whopping 20%(and that is stretching) that want to play 4th, play it. The extensive rest that are enlightened can stick with what encourages thought. As was said, in time, Hasbro/WoTC will realize its error, and fix it. Or they may simply dissolve it, or even continue on this bumpy road with the noobs of the playing field. The noobs aren’t going away, and indeed will proliferate, making a bigger audience. The general dumbing down of the future for some reason reminds me of the movie Idiocracy. Go figure.

  41. I have been playing D&D for half my life and dislike 4.0. Even the arguements posted by 4.0 fans are stupid. Those noobs have no right to be called gamers. Gygax would be disapointed.

  42. Damn 4.0 Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  43. I mean, damn 4.0 to Hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  44. when a DM kills someone in 4.0 at least he can prove it was “fair”. 3.5 was kinda random but awesome